SSDs are not created equal

I suppose the motherboard/controller makes some difference but SSDs vary greatly in performance. The disappointing Samsung performance is running on a 3GB Intel controller which could be the issue.

Here is my first one. It is in my notebook and I am very happy with it but it is not top shelf. The good news is it is a larger drive and I could feel good about installing some programs on it because I really don't want it to live forever. Real world performance from my user perception is pleasantly fast and responsive. My notebook is a decent Intel dual core so it was a good performer but this SSD really brought it to life.

My second one is a Plextor M3 Series PX-128M3 for $99 which performs much better. I have not timed the boot to Windows desk top but we are talking seconds. It runs on an i5-2500K overclocked to 4000 and the speed is blazing. 

My third and soon to be installed somewhere is a SAMSUNG 830 Series MZ-7PC064B/WW 2.5" 64GB SATA III MLC. User experience reports are impressive if my luck holds. I am looking forward to the fun. I paid $64 from Newegg. They had a 256 for $190 and its reads are reported to be 700 vs 500 but the way I set these up I do not need that large a boot drive. Yes, the larger drives could be considered a "better deal" in dollars per GB but why pay for more than you need. I will probably symbolic link the program folders on this one in addition to the users folder even though it is large enough to have a good supply of programs in addition to the operating system. I'm still hung up on not writing to the drive.

Here is the Samsung and it is disappointing compared to the Plextor M3. It starts out fine but I don't understand the severe drop. Normally the speed variations are due to another program's drive access but both drives on the 3GB controller show large variations. The drive on a 6GB controller is constant across the drive. Also the Samsung is a gen 3 drive and showing as gen 2 so I question how accurate PCWiz is at reading the controller and drive separately but it does read the controller correctly as opposed to reading the drive only. 

Lenovo SL410 Clean Install

We all know (don't we) that a clean install helps the operation of a new notebook. I just got around to the little Lenovo SL410 I bought for my wife. It always disappointed me with it's piggish slowness and horrible touch pad sensitivity. Once again a fresh install of Windows did its magic. All the Levono crap was making the notebook under perform.

To Lenovo's credit, they did have a full range of Win7-64 drivers on their support site. One mysterious driver that presented three unknown entries of "base system device" stumped me for awhile. An SD card driver was already installed by Windows so I overlooked the card reader but that was the culprit. The remaining unknown, power management, I am hoping gets picked up by Windows update although, from what I read, this may be some type of "special" Lenovo design blah, blah for power management.

Well, installing Lenovo's power management driver worked but not the one on the product page. It is this one v1.65. I ended up with a couple Levono patches but I don't know which driver they belong to. I need to watch the add/remove programs when installing drivers to see what is happening.

This thing could take 8GB of memory and could sure use more than the two it comes with if you are like me and do lot's of different things quickly. Cleaning it up helped but it suffers quickly with multiple programs working. My P8400 Gateway beats the pants off this thing. I should test a few things to see if something is dragging it down.

The hard drive appears fine for a 5400 RPM:

Running Windows Experience Index was what I imagine passing kidney stones to be like.

But yes, installing fresh OS is the only way to go. Never think that some notebook brander has done you a favor with their own software. 

This thing is still laggy. It could be due to only 2GB of memory and I am accustomed to 4 or 8 and do many things as once. 

My New WDTV - It Is Magically Magnificent

Great looking little black box, same size as Roku2. Hooked to Ethernet and downloaded new firmware which it detected and started downloading first thing. The download took only a couple of minutes and updating a couple more. My Roku2 and my Vizio had HDMI compatibility problems so I am anxious to see if WD will have the same problem. The good news is, WD has a composite feed in case of problems. It is an odd looking composite feed with one small plug into WD and three standard into television.

The home screens are pleasingly beautiful, puffy white clouds on blue skies and green grass, starry nights. Logging into Netflix was remote painful as usual (I could have plugged in a USB keyboard) but the log in was accepted and no authorization needed on the Netflix end. HDMI seems to be working perfectly and the video definition is awesome, even though I still have Netflix set on "better".

I have had episodes partially load and stop. I reverted back to main menu and restarted Netflix, then loading was normal again. No total reboot was required. WD seems to like playing to the end of a file instead of backing out of one and starting another.

Netflix's dashboard is smoother, faster and better looking on Roku but with Roku you must click on the icons to access a readable description. With WDTV you just highlight the icon and a side screen has the description. WD boots faster than Roku. Did I mention the video is stunning? I was so fed up with the sound problems I was having with Roku/Vizio (not every Vizio model) that my frame of mind is admittedly open to easy impression. And impressed I am. No composite for me, it's HDMI all the way. I think the picture is better on WD but that could have been degraded somewhat on the Roku from HDMI problems too.

WDTV must be 2.4 GHz only so I am stuck with G speed. I do appreciate that my router broadcasts N over 5 GHz and G over 2.4 GHz so that the G devices don't slow the N devices down. G works fine for even on "best" over wifi. I wonder how long it takes after the video quality selection is made on Netflix for it to take effect?

How about media shares over a Windows network? Freaky easy. Check out this video tutorial. It worked the first time. I would never have guessed at some of the settings the video tutorial showed, so watch it. I logged in with the name and password of the computer containing the share. I don't remember the video mentioning the option to not allow Windows to manage homegroup (the last option) but I chose to not allow. My first choice was an mp4 encoded video. It was perfect and over wifi, not one beat skipped. I love this thing. If I were to choose between WDTV and Roku, I would choose WDTV but Roku has many more internt streaming options. Most of those are just as well accessed through a computer, so based on the superior local streaming, I lean toward WD. I like them both when they work. Here is another tutorial on setting up network share if you had trouble. Here is the forum thread.

I may try a Plex server for it's attractive index.

Naturally the mp4 would be easier than mkv so that is next. How about a big ISO file, no problem. I can't believe the quality. It has been awhile since I was this pumped about a piece of hardware.


Don't forget your Android remote app.

Not many sites talk about different things to do/use on WDTV. Maybe it is limited but what it does do, it does it well.
Fliungo is a must try.

Netflix With Roku Over DSL Optimization

Four Tweaks That Helped My DSL Roku/Netflix
Edit: Bottom line is the 37" Vizio model I am using has HDMI incompatibility with both WDTV and Roku. Two other Vizio models I have work just fine. Still, some of the below experience may help in some instances.
---
After beating up on my network, I tried USB streaming and found sound distortion so network is not the issue. It must be the TV's HDMI, a cable or the Roku itself. The following DSL tweaks may be worth while anyway. I finally found other Vizio owners with the same Roku 2 sound distortion issues. Only fix is HDMI to component conversion box from Monoprice. Vizio VA370M seems to have no firmware update path. Apparently this problem is new to Roku 2.

These settings may help but if you have a TV that works with Roku no adjustments are probably needed.

DNS (Netflix recommended currently) (set your computer's NIC to other to override if desired)
Primary 208.67.222.222
Secondary 208.67.220.220

MTU (1462 was Netflix suggestion)
Open command prompt.
Ping www.google.com -f -l 1420 (the last switch is the letter L) and keep increasng/decreasing until no fragmentation/no loss then add 28 for header resulting in 1448 MTU ultimate. This was my number but actual numbers will vary. This is to find the ultimate MTU number. Once found the "ultimate MTU" must be entered into the router, often located under the WAN category and usually has a 1500 default. Online chatter suggested 1462, 1492 and others. But this test will give you the actual number that works for your particular setup and location.
See instructions here.

Set Roku MAC addresses to static.

Set Roku Mac addresses QoS (Quality of Service) to highest.

I can finally get through an episode of X-files with no sound distortion. Some movies are still impossible. 

My New (Refurbished) Netgear DSL $40 Modem Router

Edit: This is has been a great modem/router. It has not skipped a beat in a year with 5 heavy stream users in the house. I am considering buying another just in case this one goes down.

Netgear DBND3300v2 for $40 off eBay factory refurbished. It looks brand new. I had to reset by inserting paper clip with power on until power light showed red before accessing the setup page. Default log in is admin and password. Default IP is 192.168.0.1.

Here are the settings for Centurylink because the wizard will not set it up correctly:
Basic settings
Does Your Internet Connection Require A Login? NO

Internet IP Address:
Get Dynamically From ISP

Domain Name Server (DNS) Address :
Get Automatically From ISP

Under ADSL settings
Multiplexing settings:
LLC-BASED
VPI: 8
VCI: 35

It would not update firmware because it insisted on trying to use the most recent which was for Germany only. I had to download the latest for North America manually and then install. Worked flawlessly. Current firmware V2.1.00.53_1.00.53NA

The DBND3300 is beautiful to look at but I would not try to sleep with it in the same room. The LED display is 4th of July competitive. Think NORAD at DEFCON 5 in all its light flashing glory. Would I buy this again for $40? Yes, most definitely. Just be aware that you will not be doing Roku at N speeds because the N radio is 5 GHz. and Roku is 2.4 GHz only.

My Google Chat Lists Everyone On The Planet

Google Talk Friends List Getting Out of Hand? Try Bankruptcy

If you are also troubled by this “friend overload” problem, try the bankruptcy route – that means remove all existing friends from Google Talk in one go and make a fresh start. You can either manually remove Google Talk friends by right-clicking each of the names or use the help of GMail.

Here’s how you can do the clean up:

Step 1: Export all your existing GMail contacts to a CSV file. [Contacts > Export > CSV]

Step 2: Goto GMail Contacts again, click the “All Contacts” tab and scroll to bottom of the screen. Do a “Select All” and click “Delete” – this will also wipe off all your current friends from Google Talk.

Step 3: Now just import the original contact CSV file back into GMail so you don’t lose any of the email contacts. [Contact -> Import -> CSV] None of your GMail contacts would show up as friends in Google Talk now.

You can now selectively add friends to Google Talk. Click the Add button in Google Talk and tick the GMail contacts whom you would love to see in your Google Talk as well.

To adjust Gmail to not add contacts to chat automatically go to gmail > settings > chat
No I don't want to chat with the plaintiff"s attorney!

Free Usenet

UsenetStorm - Free Usenet Online - Download your nzb files for FREE

UsenetStorm gives you FREE unlimited access to Usenet, straight through your web browser. No more need to configure tricky news reader software. Just submit your nzb in the box above and we will make the download available to you. Downloading from Usenet made simple. Did we mention it's FREE ?

Usenet access from your IP provider has gone by the way. Here is a free, though limited, access. I have not used it yet.

Search for your file here.

Read all about it here.

Plextor M3 Series PX-128M3 Adventures

I grabbed a Plextor M3 for $99 after rebate. I don't have machine I want to put this in but couldn't pass it up. I keep looking for the right price on a new motherboard and cpu but nothing yet.

Flashing the 1.5 firmware to the Plextor was easy. The download is a bootable ISO which must be burned to a CD. I unhooked the SATA cable from one drive and hooked it (and power) to the SSD. With bios set to AHCI the drive was not recognized but changing to IDE worked. Now to wait for a system deal ....

Found here and will be back when I set up the Plextor M3.

It's a winner.

Monoprice Ear Buds Are Great

These little babies are great. Current price for Enhanced Bass Hi-Fi Noise Isolating Earphones at Monoprice is $7.11, Ears are different, I know, but these are the most comfortable ear buds I have ever used. Sound is rich and they fit so well that outside noise is reduced. I will be buying more of these. Remember, Monoprice bases shipping on the total order amount instead of stacking shipping on each item so buy a bunch and get over it.

I always look for cables and adapters on Monoprice first but earbuds? Who would have thunk it?

Painful Install Win7 From CD and Removing Old Windows Install

I've been lusting after a faster computer. First I'm going to spruce up the old one to see if I can stall off spending money. More memory should help. My old Gigabyte 965P-DS3 won't recognize anything but a FAT 32 Flash Drive so I'm stuck installing Windows from the CD. I threw a couple more GB RAM and wound up installing Win7-64 because I can't stand seeing the unusable memory. I must have decided against 64 originally because the machine only had 2GB of memory. Back then I was suspicious of 64bit driver problems so didn't use it unless I had over 3GB of RAM. Now I would use 64 on everything.

I flashed the BIOS to F14 within Windows and then had a little dance to do with the old Gigabyte-me and JMicron AHCI. Those were the days. I see originally I used IDE so I must have given up on AHCI. This time I set JMicron to IDE for the CD and set the orange Intel controller to AHCI for the hard drives. It worked.

This thing is snappy, maybe I'll keep using it. Every item working in Device Manager. Now to OC a bit. Something had happened long ago and I had reset it to stock. Nothing big, 2719 Mhz should be enough. I have not tested it yet and maybe won't. I ran it faster than this previously. I'm trying avoid crawling into the case to clear cmos. I seem to remember the jumper was cleverly placed under the graphics card or heat sink. Same guy who thought up the Ctl-F1 trick presumably.

I didn't trust things working and I need to use it so did a dual install and now I'm stuck with the old OS system partition. I'll probably just leave it but it does bug me. I know it is possible to get rid of it with some risk but I need this thing for work. I don't want to install everything and then decide to risk removing the partition. The easy way would be to back it up with EaseUS, delete the partitions and restore. Thinking ........
Another thing not to worry about. Partition Wizard merged the newly formatted old OS partition in front of the OS partition without incident.

Well that was nothing to worry about. In Windows Disk Manager I right clicked on the Windows partition that I wanted to be active and made it so. Until I rebooted it looked like nothing had changed but things changed. Before I rebooted I ran EasyBCD and made sure that my desired partition had a boot menu (which was unnecessary). I used EasyBCD's bootloader setup and installed BCD and wrote MBR to the desired drive. (Windows install has a mind of its own as to where the boot files are. I just looked on one old HP refurbished with C: and D: drives. The D: drive never had an OS and did not originally come with the machine but it was the boot drive. Now I know why the recommendation of only having one single drive attached when installing Windows 7. I ran EasyBCD and wrote the files to C: and both the computer and I are happier. Actually EasyBCD is no witch doctor. You can do it all with Diskpart and BCD editor but the pain is not worth the geek credits.

Then when I rebooted and checked disk manager, deleting the old partition was now available. I held my breath, deleted the partition and rebooted successfully. Making the partition active and EasyBCD installing proper BCD and MBR was the key. Now I want to join those two partitions. More thinking .....

I'm going to try Partition Wizard "moving and resizing". If it tanks, I have an EaseUS system backup ready to save the day.

Found this handy old OC guide: (I have mixed RAM so expected trouble be none showed.)
Remember ctl-F1 to access RAM settings. (wow, who thought of that?)

Once the BIOS screen is up, hit Ctrl+F1 to turn on all the tweaking extras (required for all Gigabyte mobos).

 Go into the Advanced BIOS Features section and set the following to Disabled:
- Limit CPUID Max. to 3
- CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E)
- CPU Thermal Monitor 2(TM2)
- CPU EIST Function

Why are we disbaled-ing them? They're throttling functions that will throttle back the CPU... which we don't particularly want.

 Hit Esc to go back to the Main Menu then enter the PC Health Status section and the Fan Speed Control Method to Disable (not necessary in the long run, but I do it anyway since the fan is pretty quiet at full speed).

 Hit Esc to go back to the Main Menu.

-  Enter the MB Intelligent Tweaker (M.I.T.) section and do the following:
- Set CPU Host Clock Control to Enabled
- Set CPU Host Frequency (MHz) to 376
- Set PCI Express Frequency(MHz) to 100
- Set System Memory Multiplier to 2.00
- Set DRAM Timing Selectable to Manual
- Set CAS Latency Time to 5
- Set DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay to 5
- Set DRAM RAS# Precharge to 5
- Set Precharge dealy (tRAS) to 12
Most RAM will actually work at 4-4-4-12 but this is a guide for lazy people so I figured I'd go with 5-5-5-12 since it's bound to work.

20 minute test is good enough

Does Your Internal Hard Drive Show As Removable In The Tray?

FIX: AHCI/SATA drives showing in "Safely Remove Hardware"

Regedit your way to: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\ SYSTEM\\ CurrentControlSet\\ services\\ msahci and create a new KEY called "Controller0" inside Controller0, create a new KEY called "Channel0" Now inside Channel0, create a new DWORD called "TreatAsInternalPort" set this value to "1" (this sets SATA port 0 (Drive C)to no longer show up in "Safely Remove Hardware")

Now, go back into the Controller0 folder again. inside Controller0, create a new KEY called "Channel1" Now inside Channel1, create a new DWORD called "TreatAsInternalPort" set this value to "1" (this sets SATA port 1 (Drive D)to no longer show up in "Safely Remove Hardware")

And so on, until all internal SATA ports are set to be treated as Internal. My motherboard has 6 SATA ports, so I have set Channel0 to Channel5.

Credit
This has bothered me on some setups. This fix works.

Time For A New Build Decision

Time for a new build for my office. I don't need to upgrade. My old Intel C2D e6400 is good enough for office work, but I can send the motherboard and CPU down the bookkeeping food chain so why not give my office life a little excitement. I need to do one of these every now and then to satisfy my obsessive compulsiveness. I bought the old Intel CPU/mobo combo used from Technodanvan on the DFI forum so it owes me nothing. It should live out its life happily crunching numbers the way computers are meant to live out their lives.

But what to buy, that is the question. I thought I had put all this upgrading behind me and then Newegg had this deal on a Plextor M3 SSD 128 for $99 and if I'm going to all the bother of installing an OS on an SSD, I'm not doing it for an old C2D e6400 rig. I already have a couple sticks of 4GB G-Skill Ripjaws that I couldn't pass up some time ago for $25 so a motherboard, CPU and cooler should do it.

I just set up a Dell Intel Sandy i5-2500 and I am not overly impressed with it (I partially cleaned the Dell crap off but didn't do a clean install, which may have made a difference) (once I got all the Dell stuff cleaned out I am more impressed). Some things are shockingly fast.  I'm sure the 2500k overclocked would be impressive but then I would want Ivy Bridge but that has heat problems so I had given up and figured I'd wait for next gen. But now I have my new SSD and it needs a home so I am leaning toward jumping the fence and grabbing an AMD FX-8120 Zambezi for $159. Why not the FX-8150? These faster chips don't have as much overclocking room so bang for buck suffers. And people are complaining that the 8150 is hot and not complaining about the 8120. I'll just save the $40 and be happier. There is a lot of love coming from the 8120 people and that always sways my decision.

For a motherboard I will stick with ASRock. My last two ASRock 870 EXTREME3's were great to set up so why go anywhere else? The difference between the 970 for $99 and the 990FX for $144 appears to be in Crossfire, which I will likely not use. But then again the 990FX includes a USB3 front panel unit the fits into a 3.5 drive space so the $40 difference is really only around $10 because I want front panel USB3 and I don't want to buy a new case. So 990FX wins the day. Or ... GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD3 ro $139 after rebate.

That only leaves the cooler. I love the Noctua NH-D14. It is a quiet and efficient monster but $85 just rubs me wrong since the curiosity factor is missing (I have one on another unit). Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus it is for $29.

The Plextor is at "packaging" stage on Newegg. The guys over on HardForum (where I saw the deal alert) say these are fast and great. I put my first (and only as of yet) SSD in my laptop. I thought at the time my 240GB size might be on the small side. Now I realize the 128GB may be overkill for me. I still only have 15GB used of my 240GB. I redirected the user profile to the HD and when I install, I manually choose the HD for most programs. Here is my SSD install blog post.

My OCZ SSD is no huge deal for bench marks but the performance for me in real world operation is something I would hate to give up. This could get interesting if the Plextor can achieve speeds reported.

Those dip patters have always been there but at least is is consistent across the drive. The SSD is 3.75 times faster than the HD. Tests say it is still at 100% with estimated life remaining of 7+ years.

$  99 Plextor M3 Series PX-128M3
$159 AMD FX-8120
$144 ASRock 990FX
$  29 Hyper 212
$431 Total

vs

$  99 Plextor M3 Series PX-128M3
$219 Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge (205 at Amazon)
$134 ASRock Z77 Extreme4
$ 29 Hyper 212
$481
$ 30 Front Panel USB3 if I want it.

$50 difference? Agonizing decision.
The costs add up but I am an "enthusiast" and must live up to my label. I have everything else. Maybe need a PSU.

Then again I may decide to do nothing and delete this post. The SSD may be just what my C2D e6400 needs for redemption and regeneration.

Today more parts were established.
$ 19 for Hyper 212 after rebate Newegg
$ 69 ASRock Z77 Pro 3 picked up at Microcenter 50% off (not doing dual video anyway but I wanted the Extreme 4 - couldn't pass up the price. If I had thought more, I would have done the Extreme but saving $50 is a good thing and it has everything I really need at the moment.)
$169 Intel I-5 2500K Microcenter (currently $219 everywhere else)
Here is an overclock guide to check out.

Now for power supply. I'm not going dual video so I shouldn't need a Tesla coil. I hate buying power supplies. I tend to over buy for stability and because of the memorable occasions from the past where I went to add something and didn't have enough power. Any supply can be DOA so holding your breath is appropriate. I think this time I will try a lower budget item and see how it goes.

Total Power Supply Wattage is NOT the crucial factor in power supply selection!!! Total Continuous Amperage Available on the +12V Rail(s) is the most important,

A single GeForce GTX 560 Ti graphics card NVIDIA specifies a power supply that has a combined +12 Volt continuous current rating of 30 Amps or greater. (check for your card)

When you overclock the i5-2500K to 4.5 GHz you will only be drawing an additional 4 Amps from the +12V rail. 

I may not even use a separate video card so the power supply could be cheaper than usual but the mother board needs a 12v 8 pin (or 2 x 12v 4 pin). I am not finding cheaper PSU units with these connectors. OCZ ModXStream Pro 700W at $50 after rebate it is then. I'll be ready for that game monster video card in the future or one of the "deals" I already have in my closet.

Parts are all in, let's slap it together:

Plextor performs nicely:

PCWizard shows both controller and drive interface version.

WD Black performs as expected:

Updated the Z77 to 1.60 bios in Windows successfully.

Crazy thing when I did symbolic link for Users I ended up with a duplicate Users folder in D: that I can't access. I will need to use Linux to delete it. I can't delete it from repair command prompt because it has the same name as the real Users folder.

Windows boots so fast the little colored lights don't even have time to join on the boot screen and not even overclocked yet.

My first use of Hyper 212 and it was a pleasure to install. This could be the easiest heat sink and fan I have every used. For $19 discounted I can see why Newegg has sold a zillion of them.

I had the Hyper 212 loosely attached and no paste to get started. This is always good enough to start and I hate to lock things down in case things need to be changed. I decided to set CPU at 40 to see if it would boot and it did. Then I figured a short burst of prime couldn't hurt. Yikes ... the temps shot to 98C ... how do I turn this thing off!!! Time to paste this baby down. I left the voltage on auto ... I wonder if it is auto adjusting above spec. on auto? Maybe I could under volt and reduce heat?

Fresh AS5 on Hyper 212, one fan with CPU at 40, Vcore at +.005. Running Prime temps much better. I could leave this for everyday use without problem but I do like stress temps at 50C max. This is not a cool chip but temps will improve somewhat a the AS5 ages. Maybe 60C is the new 50C with Sandy Bridge. I can't see getting to 4.5 under 60 but maybe temps will not rise. I doubt a second fan will do much, the fins are cool now as it is and the air feel cool. If I do push/pull it would be good to have the PWM controlling without drawing all the power from one header. 

This Rosewill splitter looks like a perfect solution. I could power the push/pull and one case fan all from the PSU but speed controlled by the PWM. Shipping is a killer so Amazon is the way to go. It doesn't qualify for free shipping but shipping is only $2.74. It is better than fighting with a fan controller. First I will hook up a second fan on a 3 pin header to see if a second fan actually helps. I remember that my Noctua 14 included a Y cable that allowed its two fans to work properly off of the single 4 pin PWM header but this PSU connection is a better solution.

I stuck this into an old Antec Sonata which is not air friendly but I'm not going for some super ultimate overclock, 4 GHz is good enough, 4.5 GHz might be possible without setting the house on fire.

If you can adjust your mind to a 60C max instead of 50C, then life is good.

On board video works well but Windows Experience is not overly impressed. My old 8600GTS scores 2 points higher. I thought maybe removing the video card would reduce heat but nothing changed. Maybe the processor runs hotter when using on board video so the trade is equal. Who knows.

My 1600 ripjaws score high 7's WIE. This thing really rocks and rolls. Installs finish in a flash. Everything just smokes and is silky smooth. It is unquestionably the best system I have ever had. The 2500k is the right choice. I would still like to see what Zambezi is like, maybe someday when prices tank. But when Sandy can be had for less than Zambezi it makes no sense to look elsewhere. I am looking forward to encoding some video.

I guess hot is OK for these CPUs. 4500 is easy but it blue screens on 4700 and I don't want to up vCore.

Homegroup Networking - Some Computers Not Listed

Edit: Just when you think you will never get stumped on Window networking ...
I checked that the shared folder was shared with everyone with full control. But I still could not copy files to the network folder.

The answer lies in the security tab ...

Here you will find more controls.

Go to advanced and you may find that full control is not given here. Of course the graphics do not show this but trust me. It just happened but I to lazy to write this on the computer that had the limited permissions.

My Conclusions First:
If your equipment works with homegroup, then use it. If not, then don't fight it, just do a work network. If you need to restrict permissions then each user must be set up on each computer. If permission levels are not a concern, then a work network is the way to go. All the computers on the network will just magically show up with no hair tearing and tears. As long as you know the user name and password of a computer on the network, you can access it. Remember that Windows will not allow access with blank passwords so your user account will need a password set up. And there is always the mysterious computer that refuses to log on and no magic on earth will fix it.

Folder access should be restricted by default but check to make sure. Open a command prompt and type "net share" and ignore the $entries. Then stop the shares you don't want by right clicking on the folders in Windows and share only the folders individually you wish to share. Or you will need to use Computer Management - Shared Folders - Shares to control the sharing of specific folders.

I have spent way too much time trying to get homegroup working sometimes only to find that the router would not handle it, probably due to ipv6 issues. I refuse to struggle with programming an old router to do ipv6 properly. Why buy new equipment when simply sharing the specific folders and setting permissions would do just fine. Well, that's my two cents. When homegroup works, it is fine, otherwise, quickly dump it. Web searches are filled with people not able to use homegroup and the answers are always the same standard line of set up and re-boot tripe. Yes certain services need to be running and certain basic steps need to be followed but beyond that I don't find any real answers.

As a side joke, I always chose a work network when I was on a public network thinking it would be more secure. From now on I will choose "home" and double dog dare someone to try connecting from the outside.
-----
So my trip down homegroup lane ... (I'm glad I don't do this for a living)
I want to isolate four computers on a network where many computers access the network, mostly for access to internet but they can see us on a "work" network. I normally would set up a work network with all of the users set up on each computer and set shares, permissions and passwords. This time I decided to use homegroup. I really should set up a separate router but for now I will use homegroup.

One problem is that even though the homegroup computers can all be seen in the network window, one is not listed under homegroup in the navigation pane. This is not keeping us form file access, but it just bugs me.

Someone suggested opening the homegroup share window and uncheck everything, close and reopen and check the shares again. Some suggest leaving and rejoining. None of that worked.

I don't see advantages to homegroup networks except for not having to set up users on each computer. Permiss

Reference 1 (good basic detail)
Reference 2 (more basic stuff)

To see what is shared
open the computer through the network window is the best way.
or
open cmd prompt and type "net share"" (don't worry about the shares with $, they are admin OS related) This will not mean much for homegroup because it will show that you are sharing the "user" account. If you go to the network window it will show the specific folders within the user account you have shared.

Developing .....

Setting up a second router to isolate a network within a network.
[modem]<-wire->[router1]<- lan-wire-wan->[router2][private computers]
DMZ router2's IP in router1's setup This step is not necessary.
Keep router 1 DHCP range norman 192.168.1.1-xxx
Place router 2 DHCP rane outside 192.168.2.1-xxx
Do not change subnet mask
WoW, our network for these private computers is much faster even without a GB switch.